Guardian Forums
Welcome. If you are a guest or are new to metaphysics, feel free to join. This is a great community where you can start your path. Please register to view more of the forums. Join today!

Guardian Forums

Connection Through Metaphysical Concept
 
HomePortalRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Black vs. White

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
LadySnow
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-06-23
Age : 24

PostSubject: Black vs. White   8/10/2013, 12:24 am

When I was starting out on my journey through occult education what had all ways been a pretty simple and straight forward concept to me turned out to be one of the biggest argument starters I've seen.

What is everyone's particular definitions for what exactly depicts or differentiates black magic from white magic?

I can provide my own opinions but I'd like to hear others first, because I'm weird.
Back to top Go down
http://www.arcaneunlocked.com/
Dramega
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 261
Join date : 2013-04-26
Age : 29
Location : Everywhere and Nowhere

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/13/2013, 3:35 am

To me its all based on perception. Duality is an illusion. Magick is magick plain and simple. Placing it into different paradigms tapers it, creates illusions and rules about it should work. When it all works the same. In the end it all comes down to the person.

On the other hand utilizing paradigms and duality as tools becomes highly. Traditionally I see Left hand path as black and right hand as white. Of course this textbook distinction is up to ones morality. Originally i based it on grounds of using Magick for selfish gain aka Black, while using to help others or aid oneself when needed was White. Over time, my studies lead to Chaoist philosophies. Thus bringing me to now, in part anyway.

It all boils down to perception, everyone has there own line of black and white.
Back to top Go down
http://gnforums.aforumfree.com
AzurePhoenix
Ally
Ally


Posts : 15
Join date : 2013-05-01
Age : 23

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/13/2013, 5:28 pm

Black magick would be doing anything over the will of another AKA external magick.
White magick would be doing anything over your will and inside of yourself, mind, soul, body, ect.
That would be my personal opinion. I thought just like Dramega, but then I realized, how many people in the world know whats best for themselves? Very very few do.
Now imagine how few or any know whats best for another, I don't think it matters if its good or not. Its an interesting idea I must keep thinking.
Back to top Go down
Electric Touch
Initiate
Initiate
avatar

Posts : 107
Join date : 2013-05-01
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/14/2013, 5:38 am

in my opinion black magick is a way to catalog the use of magick for one's self, while white magick is the way to catalog the use of magick on others outside yourself. you can say one is selfish while the other is selfless, inward and expending outward, relay on your own or relay on the universe.

this might get confusing because if someone wants to enhance his physical/spiritual body capabilities, for example, as not evil as it might sound it would be considered as black magick.

so.. although how it might sound, none of which is practically good or bad, it is just a way of describing when you want to use magick for yourself or when you want to use it on another source, really dont see any reason why that matters so much ^^



if anyone is interested in hearing other people's opinions, Metapara posted a similar post not long ago:
http://metapara.org/forum/pg/topicview/misc/magick/what-is-magick-black/index.php?redirected=1#post_728
Back to top Go down
LadySnow
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-06-23
Age : 24

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/14/2013, 6:12 pm

I'll just say right quick I really really really appreciate you guys replying to this. I also love how impartial you seem and in-depth your personal opinions are.

I'll build my description of my own opinion off of the repeated phrase, "It doesn't matter..."
I think Black and White can be seen as rather obsolete terms used to describe the majority of witchcraft. Black and White magic to me refer to practical magic; that not really dealing with religion, specific spirituality, or in-depth ritualistic practice. Practical magic to my understanding is defined in many obscure and vague ways. To practice practical magic, your intention may be clear but the categorization of your intention isn't necessarily.

As an example I'll tackle differing views I've seen:
For instance, you want to cast a spell to heal someone because you love them deeply. Well this in general I would see considered white magic for various reasons: perhaps because it's helping someone or it's external or it's benign and not harmful or because it's a selfless act or because it's good as opposed to evil.
My argument for the use of the phrase "white magic" in this scenario is that each and every one of those ways to describe the spell as being "white" is by all means according to personal perspective and how one personally perceives that perspective.
A: You're helping someone therefore it's white.
- Well what about the person who did the hurting? Are you necessarily helping them? Even if the hurt individual did the harm to themselves, they won't necessarily be grateful towards your "helping them".
B: It's external (referring to Azure's opinions).
- Well what happens when external and internal (suggested) become connected? Your external work is linked to you internally for whatever reason, perhaps that being they're a loved one. Indirect or not, does it not count? Or maybe it is direct...who knows but the caster?
C: It benign, you're doing something that is harmless.
- Someone mentioned earlier that it is rare for someone to know what they personally need, well it's also rare for someone know exactly what someone else needs. For something to be gained, something else must be lost. Magic is not about causing miracles once you get down to how it actually works...where there's harm undone elsewhere is harm done.
D: It's selfless though, they're trying to help.
- Let's say for a second the hurt person wants to be healed, everything is a go, and from what you can see my idea of everything coming with a cost, you are capable of miracles here...
You're still gaining something, nothing you do is entirely selfless. You're gaining this person now being completely healthy; whether you do for a clear conscience or you do out of pure goodness you still desire to do it.
E: It's good! It doesn't matter if you're doing something that's technically both selfless and selfish, you're doing good!
- Whether or not by healing a person is good or evil depends entirely where you're standing. If you have a mass-murdering sister who has a nasty wound and you want to relieve the pain I'm sure many families would object to you doing so.
Where do you go from there? "Well the sister is obviously evil but..." There is no but, you will be viewed as evil too if you help her. Then again, you're helping someone, you must be good right? That's how you view yourself at that moment... (extreme scenario but easiest to explain).

I could do the same when it comes to "black magic" and what is considered for that category.

My overall opinion is that nothing is either black or white, it's all "grey". What is pleasant to someone is unpleasant to someone else.

Everyone has completely different views on what black and white magic refers to so in my opinion I think it's pointless to use such phrases when conversing with other people unless you plan to explain, sometimes debate, your conceptual views behind it every time. I think the terms however can be useful in personal journals or a BoS (Book of Shadows) or whatever only you have to really understand, for quick categorization purposes.
Back to top Go down
http://www.arcaneunlocked.com/
Electric Touch
Initiate
Initiate
avatar

Posts : 107
Join date : 2013-05-01
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/15/2013, 9:14 pm

i think a big difference Lady Snow is that you use black and white to describe if the act of magick is good or bad (which are subjective concepts) , when i for example, use them to whether that magick is about me or another (in a short description), regardless if it is "good" or "bad".

and something less related to the subject, you said "where there's harm undone elsewhere is harm done." - can you explain more about that view?
Back to top Go down
Dramega
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 261
Join date : 2013-04-26
Age : 29
Location : Everywhere and Nowhere

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/16/2013, 1:06 am

Sounds kind of like the Karmic Philosophies from the Rule of 3.

Golden rule to an extent, balance must be maintained in some fashion in order for the system to function. When someone tampers, it autocorrects. This is my understanding, according to some others beliefs.
Back to top Go down
http://gnforums.aforumfree.com
LadySnow
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-06-23
Age : 24

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/18/2013, 11:42 pm

The thing is, "balance" means very little to me. I am extremely neutral towards most forms of magic. If there is more chaos and less order, that's still balance. Perhaps more or less fortunate for some people but balance nonetheless.

I also don't use the terms "black" or "white" in magic at all, I feel kind of silly for not stating that in a more straight forward way. My whole opinion on the terms is basically that I have yet to really hear about a way to define either "black magic" or "white magic" that is not solely based on the perspective of the practitioner using the term "black magic" or "white magic" for the magic they practice and the perception of that perspective.

For instance ElectricTouch, you say your conceptual understanding is "whether that magick is about [you] or another". Something I would say to that is I see that as everything you do in magic is about you. It's you and how you feel towards whatever you're casting the spell for.

"...where there's harm undone elsewhere is harm done." By this I mean anything good or bad happening has the opposite kind repercussion elsewhere either based on your or some other person's perception.
Let's say a small child tripped and fell at school. He put a bandaid on his knee. To him, that is harm undone or rather, attempting to harm undone since a bandaid only protects the injury.
Well there's probably a kid who isn't fond of that child and would very much prefer to receive attention from the teachers rather than them giving it to the injured child (whom he doesn't like). To him, that is harm done (to him).
Got me? "where there's harm undone elsewhere is harm done," was just a quick way of me making that point.
Back to top Go down
http://www.arcaneunlocked.com/
Dramega
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 261
Join date : 2013-04-26
Age : 29
Location : Everywhere and Nowhere

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/18/2013, 11:51 pm

Always interesting to learn others personal perceptions. Helps to increase the mental frame.
Back to top Go down
http://gnforums.aforumfree.com
LadySnow
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-06-23
Age : 24

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/19/2013, 12:04 am

Absolutely. I very much appreciated you guys replying to this. Your opinions I must say were all very well thought out and I felt very disinclined to debate/argue any of them. I also liked the unique quality to these ideas. Very Happy
Back to top Go down
http://www.arcaneunlocked.com/
Dramega
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 261
Join date : 2013-04-26
Age : 29
Location : Everywhere and Nowhere

PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   8/19/2013, 12:07 am

No problem.
Back to top Go down
http://gnforums.aforumfree.com
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Black vs. White   

Back to top Go down
 
Black vs. White
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» black and white are the worst games ever
» SIMPLY BLACK AND WHITE
» Looking for a battle (Pokemon Black and White)
» Pokemon Black and White Deoxys Or Darkrai?
» reasons pokemon black/white suck!

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Guardian Forums :: Metaphysical Beginnings :: Hall of Discussion :: Philosophical Debate-
Jump to: